grey_sw: Cavil from BSG (Default)
[personal profile] grey_sw
I'm not quite sure how I feel about this one -- it's so obviously Part One Of Two that it's tough to decide.

I liked the flashbacks quite a bit -- this is a great way to bring the series back to the beginning. It's surprisingly effective to see these people as they once were, after all this time. I'm not sure where they're going with this, though. Are they just character moments, or will they tie in to some kind of mystical/existential ending?

In particular, I see a strong parallel between Anders' Pyramid speech in this episode and Cavil's supernova speech in No Exit. Between those two and the humans' suicide-to-save-themselves mission, it seems as if nearly everyone is reaching for some sort of apotheosis, each in their own way. And did I mention they're next to a singularity? :P

Is it there to fuel a "The Black Hole" style mystical ending? Is it part of the Eternal Recurrence somehow? Or is it just there so that the Cavils can get thrown into it at the end?

I have to admit that I wasn't quite as into the scenes on Galactica, though. The whole "final mission" plot doesn't make a whole lot of sense -- with just two hours to go, it seems that the final conflict stands at "Cavil & Friends vs. Everybody Else In: A Heavyweight Match For The Magical Baby", which is frankly rather bizarre, as we still don't know precisely why or how she's magical! Nor is there anywhere the humans could go with the baby if they manage to rescue her, nor will there be much of a ship left for them to go there in. And at the very heart of the entire mission is a deus-ex-machina with Anders, who magically became a magical hybrid who magically knows where Cavil moved the Colony to, because Hera magically drew some star-map dots (and gee, what're the odds that she's magically drawing some DNA dots for Uncle Cavil on the Colony, there?) It's a good thing that this is the endgame, because it's getting a bit tough for me to suspend disbelief.

In short, I'm just not sure where they're going with all this. If they simply steal Hera back and/or destroy the Colony and the 1/4/5s, how does that solve anything? All the "millions" of Cavils cannot possibly be on the Colony at once (that'd be beyond stupid), and wrecking their chances at resurrection is definitely not going to help with their justice obsession. And the humans still have nowhere to go, nowhere to live even if they get the magic baby back.

It seems as if some sort of reconciliation with the 1/4/5s is the only hope (and would fit with the Hybrid's prophecy from Razor), but I'm just not sure if the writers will do this in an honest way, especially after setting Cavil up as a super-baddie all season. Death or conversion seems more likely, and if this is really the way the show ends, I'm going to be deeply disappointed. BSG used to be morally ambiguous; it used to ask hard questions about whether or not humanity really is the only valid form of life, and whether or not thinking machines might also be worthy of existence. If the ending says "actually, it turns out we really are the very best ever -- a bunch of special snowflakes fueled by Faith And The Power Of Love -- and machines who don't want to live that way are evil and bad and deserve to die and/or be forced to live that way"... well, that's a very poor answer to the questions raised in the earlier seasons.

It's also long-term suicide for the Fleet, because without a bunch of machine-people around, who's going to remind the new human/Cylon race to be nice to their own machines 2000 Years Later? If love and religion weren't enough to keep the Cylons themselves from creating Centurions and destroying themselves on Earth, how's it going to save the human/Cylon hybrids Ellen wants to create?

Could it be that the way to end the cycle of man/machine violence is *not* to kill all the machines and all the humans, and *not* to force everyone to choose one side or the other, but to allow *both* civilizations to survive, side by side?

Or, I guess the 1/4/5s could just die. :P We'll find out next week!

Date: 2009-03-17 02:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] exploding-candy.livejournal.com
I'm just not sure where they're going with all this.

This pretty much sums up my feelings about the last couple episodes. I was surprised at how un-interested I was in them, considering the series is almost over.

I liked some of the flashbacks but not others. The Gaius/Six ones were fantastic, and added a lot of depth and cool backstory to their relationship, and to them as individuals. The Lee/Zak/Kara ones, and drunk!Lee chasing a pigeon around? Not quite so meaningful to me.

I lol'ed a little bit at the black hole plot point. That has the potential to get so ridiculous so fast. It was hard enough for me to suspend disbelief when they were on the algae planet, the star went nova right next to them and they miraculously weren't vaporized. But if they pull something stupid like, "hey look we successfully escaped the gravitational pull of a black hole!" that would seriously ruin it for me. If they're going to fly into a black hole, they better get ripped apart into their constituent particles. Just sayin'. Well, I guess the cylons could escape by jumping, but Galactica? Enjoy your space-time singularity.

I agree it's a little strange that the writers have kind of dropped the whole "humans looking for a new home" plot, which was... pretty central to the show until 4.5. At this point it would be kind of ridiculous if, at the last minute, they were all "hey look! A perfectly habitable planet!" Right next to a black hole? Riiight... The only thing stupider would be if they somehow went "through" the black hole, and magically found a perfect planet on the "other side". *crosses fingers that the writers don't use the black hole as a stupid magical plot device to make totally unbelievable things happen*

Could it be that the way to end the cycle of man/machine violence is *not* to kill all the machines and all the humans, and *not* to force everyone to choose one side or the other, but to allow *both* civilizations to survive, side by side?

I want this to happen so much. Peaceful coexistence without forced assimilation/colonialism = win. Unfortunately, it's looking less and less like this will be the case. Have you seen the Sci Fi preview for the finale? :\ Ugh. I don't know how I'm going to deal if, after such an awesome run of earlier seasons, the show ends on such a tepid, shallow, and flat-out gross note as "actually, it turns out we really are the very best ever -- a bunch of special snowflakes fueled by Faith And The Power Of Love -- and machines who don't want to live that way are evil and bad and deserve to die and/or be forced to live that way" . I'm trying very hard to retain my optimism.

But hey, Simon had lines (a line?) in this episode! I squee'd a little bit.

Date: 2009-03-17 03:52 pm (UTC)
ext_72247: Cavil from BSG (Default)
From: [identity profile] grey-sw.livejournal.com
This pretty much sums up my feelings about the last couple episodes. I was surprised at how un-interested I was in them, considering the series is almost over.

Yeah. I liked Someone To Watch Over Me, but looking back, that's about the only one I've truly enjoyed since The Oath. And to me, the mutiny episodes were retroactively wrecked by the ridiculous lack of closure and/or meaning for the storyline.

I lol'ed a little bit at the black hole plot point. That has the potential to get so ridiculous so fast.

I lol'ed a LOT at the black hole plot point. I can hardly think of anything they can do with it that isn't stupid. If they fly into it and come out the other side, that's extremely stupid. If the Colony is conveniently ripped apart by it, that's also stupid. Hell, if the Galactica is conveniently ripped apart by it, that's equally stupid. And the less we discuss the chances of it triggering a Like, Totally Mystical Ending, Maaaaaaaaaan, the better.

The only thing that they could do with it that isn't lame would be nothing. As long as it's just there for the pretty and/or to create an excuse for why the Galactica can only jump in at one spot, I guess that would be reasonable.

It's almost like it's a big, glowy metaphor for the writers this season: look, everybody! There's a big convenient plot point in space, right next to The Final Battle! Hurrah! Whew, we almost had to come up with a reason why things happen! *eyeroll*

Well, I guess the cylons could escape by jumping, but Galactica? Enjoy your space-time singularity.

Y'know, I don't think they can escape by jumping. Isn't part of the thing with the Colony that it (conveniently, of course!) cannot jump? I think it's supposed to be the same one the Five drove from Earth, and that one only had sublight drives.

I agree it's a little strange that the writers have kind of dropped the whole "humans looking for a new home" plot, which was... pretty central to the show until 4.5.

Yes, this is strange. And it's especially strange that the Galactica (you know, the one with all the Raptors the fleet needs in order to find a planet) has gone off on a bizarre child-rescuing suicide mission, featuring every single political and military leader except Cottle and maybe Baltar, leaving the fleet to collapse into defenseless anarchy. Way to shepherd your race, guys.

About finding a planet: the writers could always go for another "miracle", since they seem to have zero shame on that front. But I also wonder if Mr. John "I'm Frakkin' Obsessed By Things In Space" Cavil might know where the humans could find a nice planet on short notice... assuming, of course, that anybody bothers to ask!

I think it's possible that everyone might just die in the end, though. Possibly after we get to watch some trippy visuals cribbed from Disney's "The Black Hole".

I want this to happen so much. Peaceful coexistence without forced assimilation/colonialism = win. Unfortunately, it's looking less and less like this will be the case. Have you seen the Sci Fi preview for the finale? :\ Ugh.

heh, yeah.

I want it to happen, too, but I'm personally fine with some shooting/blowy-uppy before the end. If they give the series a good ending afterward, great... and if they don't, then at least I'll get to watch Doral and Simon and Cavil and also Centurions and Raiders kill somebody before they die. It's schadenfreude time! <3

I don't know how I'm going to deal if, after such an awesome run of earlier seasons, the show ends on such a tepid, shallow, and flat-out gross note. I'm trying very hard to retain my optimism.

Me, too. We shall see.

But hey, Simon had lines (a line?) in this episode! I squee'd a little bit.

Yeah! And Doral has a shiny new shirt (I think?) but has to sit next to Hera very quietly, lest he accidentally say anything and thus have to be paid SAG scale for the episode. :P

They also had Doral's actor and his new shirt in the Last Frakkin' Special! He did some of the announcements before/after the commercials... and then did not get any other screentime. Oh, show! *facepalm* You keep saying "it's about the characters, stupid", but I don't think that means what you think it does...

Date: 2009-03-18 04:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] exploding-candy.livejournal.com
I have to admit I'm morbidly curious as to what exactly they're going to do with the plot point space-time singularity. Like, just how silly will it get? Are we in for a 2001: Space Odyssey-esque journey through absolute trippiness?

Y'know, I don't think they can escape by jumping. Isn't part of the thing with the Colony that it (conveniently, of course!) cannot jump?

The baseships could jump out though, couldn't they? I doubt there'd be enough room for all the cylons on the colony, but at least they would have some method of escape.

I want it to happen, too, but I'm personally fine with some shooting/blowy-uppy before the end. If they give the series a good ending afterward, great... and if they don't, then at least I'll get to watch Doral and Simon and Cavil and also Centurions and Raiders kill somebody before they die. It's schadenfreude time! <3

Ha, yes XD I'm not ashamed to admit that I will forgive a lot if there's enough screen time of centurions doing things, things likely to include the usuals of shooting and mauling people. If there's actual closure to the plot threads involving them, I might go so far as to say I'd forgive everything. But we'll see. And Doral holding that submachine gun was pretty wicked. I kind of got this absurd mental image of him being like, "WHO TOUCHED MY HAIR?! *rawr*".

The Last Frakkin' Special! I have not seen this. Curse my lack of the Sci Fi channel. I'll have to download it when I get home today.

Date: 2009-03-19 03:45 am (UTC)
ext_72247: Cavil from BSG (Default)
From: [identity profile] grey-sw.livejournal.com
I have to admit I'm morbidly curious as to what exactly they're going to do with the plot point space-time singularity. Like, just how silly will it get? Are we in for a 2001: Space Odyssey-esque journey through absolute trippiness?

Maybe so. Given all the mystical stuff this season, we might just be in for something like "Faith", only more so. It'd be a tried-and-true way for the writers to dodge responsibility with regards to the ending... as would "rocksblack holes fall; everyone dies", come to think of it.

The baseships could jump out though, couldn't they? I doubt there'd be enough room for all the cylons on the colony, but at least they would have some method of escape.

Yeah, some could surely get away in an "abandon ship" sort of scenario. And you'd think there must be many Basestars which aren't at the Colony to begin with, also.

If there's actual closure to the plot threads involving them, I might go so far as to say I'd forgive everything. But we'll see. And Doral holding that submachine gun was pretty wicked. I kind of got this absurd mental image of him being like, "WHO TOUCHED MY HAIR?! *rawr*".

Yes! I can hardly wait to see some 1/4/5 ass-kicking; it's been like, what, season 3 since they killed any humans? What fun is that?

Then again, it were up to me, the finale would be The 1/4/5s, Centurions, and Raiders In: Frak This, We're Getting Our Two Hours of Screentime In Season 4.5, Goddamnit! With guest appearances by Leoben & His Ugly Shirts, because he didn't get many lines, either.

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